Some damned fools have stated that the right-wing whackaloon Jim Adkisson who shot up Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville would not have been able to fire off all three shells in his shotgun if someone in the congregation had been armed. My response to that is: Bullshit. No, let me restate that: Bull Fucking Shit.
It was a semi-automatic shotgun. You pull the trigger three times. It fires three times. There was no way -- *NO* way -- that anybody would have had the ability to pull out a weapon, acquire this whackaloon as a target, and take him out before he managed to get his three shots off -- and remember, THERE WERE CHILDREN IN THE BACKGROUND so if you missed, you had a chance of killing a child.
Furthermore, we're talking UNITARIANS, people. Unitarians are like Quakers. They don't believe in killing people or in violence. They *do* believe in putting their own lives on the line to protect others. That is why this whackaloon did not get a chance to reload and fire off three more shots -- rather than running away, the men in the congregation ran *toward* him to distract him from shooting at children, and gang-tackled him (in a loving way, I'm sure, them being Unitarians and all). A Unitarian simply is not the kind of person who a) carries, and b) uses a handgun for any purpose other than perhaps varmint hunting on his farm. The folks who go around heavily armed are called "Baptists". Duh.
In other words, someone in the congregation with a handgun would be both a) unlikely because it's against their religion, and b) wouldn't have made any difference because by the time anybody could have cleared their weapon and gotten a firing angle where they didn't risk killing children in the background if they missed, this guy was already tackled by the men of the congregation. What made a difference here and prevented more people from dying was the brave men of the congregation who, rather than flee like little girl-men (or Republicans), protected their wives and children by rushing this asshole and tackling him. Folks who want to use this tragedy to make any statement about guns -- pro or con -- can just go fuck themselves.
-- Badtux the Rude Penguin
I'm waiting for the first time there's a shooting in public in one of the "right to bear arms" states that encourages people to pack heat when they go shopping, and somebody pulls out a pistol to shoot the shooter. Then some other excited mouth-breather pulls out a gun to shoot HIM. And so on and so on, creating a "death blossom" like U.S. military personnel used to say Iraqi security forces did when they were fired upon.
ReplyDeleteTrue courage has never been a hallmark of neo-con philosophy. Note how many 'had other priorities', copped on medical conditions that required no extensive treatment, went AWOL, managed to obtain numerous deferments, and did their level best to avoid any entanglement with the Armed Services.
ReplyDeleteNor did these captains of cowardice manage to do CO service. Unitarians and Quakers may not bear arms but they stand up with their fellow countrymen in many other ways.
Mold
I never understood the argument that we should all pack guns at the library, that way if a person with a gun starts shooting, it will turn into the OK Corral.
ReplyDeletei've been around guns my entire life. i own several right now. the lesson these gun nuts never seem to learn is the one i delivered as an instructor in small arms for the navy.
ReplyDeletei'd have them strap on the .45s (dating myself, i know) and adjust to the feel and the weight. i'd scan the class to see who was starting to go all john wayne on me, doing the gunfighter eye narrowing and shit.
then i'd tell them:
gentlemen, the first, and most important thing you've done by putting on that pistol is to have increased your chances of being in a gunfight by one hundred percent.
You've said it all a lot better than I could, BT. Thanks...
ReplyDeleteThose Quakers can fool ya. Don't forget the highest-ranking Quaker ever to serve in the US government was Richard Nixon. Though in his case, I'm not sure the teachings really took.
ReplyDeleteIn The Puzzle Palace, James Bamford relates a hilarious story where J Edger Hoover demanded that the NSA begin round-the-clock surveillance of every Quaker in the nation. Following the order would have required bugging Nixon's phone. The request was denied.
Fuckin' hell yea BadTux!
ReplyDeleteRemember a month or two ago, when some guy shot up a church (Colorado or somesuch state) and was shot and killed by an armed guard? The original shooter still managed to get off a bunch of shots.
ReplyDeleteBeing armed doesn't prevent gun crime, just allows you to answer it in kind. And if you (that's a generic you) can't honestly admit that, then you can't be trusted to carry in the first place.
Not all UUs are pacifists. The senior pastor at my UU church is a believer in Just War. And, as a Jarhead, I'll caution you to be nice in my church.
ReplyDeleteDick, good point about Unitarians not being a unitary church :-).
ReplyDeleteJames, good point about the Colorado shooting. And I'll just point out that the security guard who shot and killed the perp was one of several people within shooting distance of the perp who were armed and had sight lines to draw down and shoot the perp -- but the other people did not pull their weapon and shoot the perp, because they had no formal firearms training and thus no reflexes to draw upon when they panicked under fire. The security guard who DID shoot and kill the perp in Colorado was a former police officer who'd left the force to raise her kids, who reacted as she had been trained to react -- i.e., she ran *to* the shooting with her weapon drawn and ready to use, acquired the target, and took it out.
I don't think the outcome of this particular shooting would have been any different if every single member of the congregation had been armed. Nobody draws down on someone toting a shotgun until that person toting the shotgun actually uses it on someone and with a semi-automatic shotgun the perp can get three shots off before anybody has a chance to acquire him as a target and down him, and no gun control law ever proposed in the United States prohibits hunting weapons such as shotguns. To make *any* statement about guns in the context of Tennessee Valley Unitarian is thus just plain idiocy.
-- Badtux the Rude Penguin
Oh, so no one else can't make a statement "pro or con" based on this tragedy, but you can? What an idiot...
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell is minstrel boy doing giving gun classes with an attitude like that? He's got it EXACTLY backwards. First of all, most folks who arm themselves CONCEAL their weapon (who goes around with a gun on their hip in the first place?). And, the ones that DO carry concealed weapons, KNOW that they just increased their chances that they will NOT become a statistic. How difficult is that to grasp? Sorry, I guess I'm in the wrong blog. I'll move to a more logical one. Believe me, they're out there.
ReplyDeleteHi mitch! That's it? That's all you got? Calling the proprietor of this blog an "idiot" and calling a much-decorated veteran of the Navy Seals who has been in more firefights than your cheeto-stained-finger basement-dwelling ass can even conceive of as "wrong" about how to use guns? That's it, name calling?
ReplyDeleteIf you got somethin' to say, say it, don't spray it. I'm not deleting your posts (even though they violate the ground rules, which forbid posts that consist solely of insults or stupidity) just so other folks can see where you're coming from. As for your statement that "this is not the blog for me", probably true. Get on back to your circle jerk where everybody agrees with you and you don't have to use those little things called "logic" and "reason" to make a point. Here, no logic, no reason, == stupidity == further posts that are comprised solely of insults or illogic will be deleted summarily.
- Badtux the Proprietor Penguin
PS: Before you get your panties in a wad about "free speech" and such shit, this is my blog, my property. If you don't like my rules, create your own blog. I don't let folks vandalize my property just because they somehow think they have a "right" to use my property any way they see fit.