... had a design defect in the OBDCII wiring for the 2005-2006 Jeep Wrangler which won't allow the heated O2 sensor readiness test to complete and thus the Jeep won't pass emissions, but the fucktards want to charge an arm and a leg to implement the TSB that fixes the issue -- which involves cutting the crossed wires and un-crossing / re-soldering them so they go to the right place. And of course because emissions testing is only required for cars that are 6 years of age or older, I detect this bullshit on their part only after the emissions warranty (5 years / 50k miles) is over.
A word of advice to anybody wanting to buy a car from Chiseler Corporation: DON'T. These asswipes are the most crooked, evil sons of bitches on the whole fucking planet. I can't *BEGIN* to list the ways that they refuse to stand behind the quality of their piss-poor piece of shit products. Anybody who buys one of their products better damn well know how to do their own work and how to fix shit themselves, because their dealers just swap out one defective part for an equally defective part over and over again (like the gas tanks on the 2001-2010 Jeeps that can't withstand E10 gasoline as mandated by the Feds in many locations, it causes the check valve gasket inside the tank to swell and stop sealing, meaning that a) it's no longer crash-worthy and b) gas spits out the hole when the tank is full, instead of the check valve stopping it). You also better be damn good at fabricating your own replacements or fixes for parts that were defective from day one and still won't work today, such as the oil pump drive assembly in the 2005-2006 Wrangler, which is completely broken and will ruin your cam unless you fabricate a way to lubricate the top end of the assembly (which is sealed WITHOUT ANY LUBRICANT AT ALL and will eventually seize). Chiseler is *STILL* selling defective OPDA units *TODAY* that will ruin your camshaft just as surely as taking a sledgehammer to it.
So anyhow: To anybody thinking that Fiat's acquisition of Chiseler would change things: It has. FOR THE WORSE. Fiat completely cut off ALL independent mechanics, who no longer are allowed to use the scan tool needed to repair recent-model Chiseler products (only authorized dealers can get the web site authentication codes needed to download the codes and definition files into the new tools), and Fiat/Chiseler *NO LONGER SELLS FACTORY SERVICE MANUALS FOR THEIR VEHICLES*. None. Nada. Nope. Zilch. If it breaks, they require you to take it to the dealer, period, so that the dealer can swap in *ANOTHER* defective part identical to the original that is *GUARANTEED* to break and cause major damage.
Summary: If you buy a Chiseler Corporation product, you're fucked in the head. These are some evil sons of bitches. You want a product from a company that's doing it right, that stands behind their product, buy a Hyundai/Kia (Kia is owned by Hyundai, different nameplate). Just sayin'.
If there was any alternative to the Jeep Wrangler as a serious offroad vehicle, I'd buy it -- but, alas, there isn't. Not sold in the United States, anyhow. Suzuki refuses to bring in their Jimny ever since Consumer Reports panned it as "dangerous" (it used to be sold here as the "Samurai"), Land Rover Defenders and Mercedes G-classes are selling for six figures here because only the most luxurious models are imported (not the basic cheap models sold elsewhere) and aren't as good offroad as a Wrangler in any event, and so forth. It just pisses me off that I have to support Chiseler Corporation in order to pursue my hobby of ghost-towning and mine exploration, sigh!
-- Badtux the Wrenching Penguin
That really bums me out. I always hope that Chrysler will turn around and make good cars again. Purely for sentimental reasons, though.
ReplyDeleteMy grandfather was a coal miner in Pennsylvania. He damaged his lungs but kept right on working down in the mines until he finally decided to try to move to Detroit for a better life.
He was hired by Chrysler and worked building cars there until he retired with a great pension and full health insurance. Compared to working in a coal mine, working in an auto plant is like winning the lottery. He was able to buy a comfortable home in a nice neighborhood and send all of his kids to college. It was a good life and Chrysler made it possible.
But they really have been making shitty cars lately.
Actually, the cars they've been making lately really aren't that bad, it's just that the chiseler asswipe MBA-ruined "managers" won't stand behind the product and won't let the engineers fix problems with the product (I can't believe that there's nobody at Chrysler who can't figure out how to fix the lack of lubrication of the OPDA top end when we've figured out how to do it via fabricating a number of different ways to do it on the various Jeep forums!) because that would "cost money" and of course that's the important thing for them, they don't give a shit about customer satisfaction except insofar as they're forced to do so by lawsuits and Federal safety recalls.
ReplyDeleteChiseler is yet another company with great engineers ruined by the sociopaths who graduate from American MBA schools who won't stand behind their product because they make more money sticking it to the customer and, as sociopaths, they view customers as prey, not as people, thus have no ethical qualms about sticking it to the customer time after time. And you wonder why I advice against buying a Chiseler Corporation product?
- Badtux the Head-shakin' Penguin
Dude, I'm from Detroit. You don't have to tell me about auto executives. Or engineers for that matter. ;)
ReplyDeleteMy wonder is why they -- and decision-makers at many other businesses -- think ripping off the customer will work as a business model.
ReplyDeleteI remember when I first learned about the notion of "planned obsolescence" as it pertains to the auto industry. A GM idea, IIRC, although I also recall a possibly apocryphal story of Henry Ford sending engineers to junkyards to dissect dead Model Ts to see which parts were in the best shape. That let him know that he was making them too sturdy, so he could cut back on the quality of the metal or whatever. There is also the (in) famous business school story of the airline exec who saved $100,000 a year removing a single black olive from the salads served in-flight. (Back when they used to even give you food on planes, instead of see meals as another opportunity to price-gouge.)
The business paradigm in America is now "olive-snatching." From my limited experience as a tourist in a handful of countries in Europe during a number of trips, I don't see the same chintiziness. You pay high prices for stuff here, but the goods seem to be quality. Then again, I've never bought a car here, just rented. Australia had some shonky business practices, but that's just because they're a nation of slipshod second-rate British wannabes. (Nice people, though.) And Canada follows America in all things, although there doesn't seem to be the same level of venality driving things there. They WANT to be nice, because that's what they've been trained to do as Canajuns.
I think sociopaths are counting on people to be stupid, so they don't put one and one together and say "Fcuk this sheet, I'm never doing business with this company again." Sociopaths are petty much stupid themselves, at least in terms of being able to think about the larger picture, so they project their own mindset as being how others are. And there are a lot of stupid/sociopathic people in society.
Also, if you know that every other company is run by sociopaths playing the same game, you can be confident that the customers you lose by gypping them will be replaced by fresh meat that's come to you as a result of being burnt by your competitors. The customers lose, but every sociopath wins!
It isn't just customers who lose. When consumers finally figured out that the US made cars were more expensive and didn't last as long as many foreign cars, they stopped buying them. The auto executives of course blamed the unions (Although to be fair the higher ups at the UAW are just as horrible as any auto executive). The end result, a lot of auto workers got the shaft and a whole city started crumbling.
ReplyDeleteBut blaming the people at the top only gets one so far. The truth is that most people in a similar situation would make similarly bad decisions. The real problem is that we have a system that rewards people too heavily for short term gains so they get rewarded for cost cutting in the short term even when it harms them in the long term. They don't think "How can I win this customer's loyalty so the *next* car they buy is a Chrysler"? They just think, "How can I get this person to buy a car TODAY with the highest possible mark-up"?
Well, the whole point of the 99% protests is that the people at the top not only made bad decisions for short term profit at the corporate level, but they also own our politicians and created the laws that make it profitable to think only of short-term profit.
ReplyDeleteAnd BTW, Chiseler Corporation is alone even amongst American auto companies for the level of "olive-picking" (thanks Bukko!) that it does. Ford Motor Company learned from its Pinto experience and as a family-run outfit does think of the long term. General Motors is not exactly saintly in the olive-picking department but at least its automobiles don't come from the factory with major defects that ought to be warranty-fixed but aren't. And of course none of the foreign brands operate that way. NONE of them. There's examples where arrogance gets them in trouble -- e.g., Volkswagen's insistence that there is nothing wrong with the fuel pump on its TDI vehicles because it's sold those vehicles everywhere on the planet without a problem and thus the fact that American TDI vehicles are shredding fuel pumps the way a fat lady at McDonalds shreds a Big Mac means it's something the stupid Americans are doing to their beautiful car, not something wrong with the car -- but there's not this blatant "screw the customer" attitude that seems unique to Chiseler Corporation amongst auto-makers selling cars here in America.
I'd hoped that changing the ownership would help. Chrysler was fucked hard by Daimler -- Daimler sucked every bit of value out of the company and left an empty husk. Cerberus was a bunch of evil SOB's in the first place. Fiat... eh, what would they bring to the company? Couldn't be worse, right? Well... you coulda fooled me. Based on the decisions made since the Italians took over -- no factory service manuals, obsoleting the old tools that independent mechanics could buy in favor of new tools that they're not allowed to buy, etc. -- they're even *more* evil. Who coulda guessed?!
- Badtux the Car Penguin
My New Beetle shredded four water pumps over its 11-year life. It died from overheating complications, as a matter of fact.
ReplyDeleteVolkswagen: "Yeah, plastic impeller blades will work! And save tons of money!"
Well, the whole point of the 99% protests is that the people at the top not only made bad decisions for short term profit at the corporate level, but they also own our politicians and created the laws that make it profitable to think only of short-term profit.
ReplyDeleteIf you ever find yourself in the Detroit area, you should take advantage of our public transportation network for a very concrete example of what happens when the auto companies control your town.
the way a fat lady at McDonalds shreds a Big Mac
WTF? Really?
The idea alone you can not buy a factory service manual is reason enough to stay away from these products. And then there is the code issue or lack of it. That's blackmail.
ReplyDeleteStep 23 in the fix - you don't even know for days apparently if all the cutting /splicing and what have worked.
OneFly, the problem apparently is that you have to unhook the power from the power distribution center in order to flip it over and do all this crap to it, and of course that changes *all* of the readiness monitors to "not ready". The one that takes the longest to go back to "ready" after that is the evaporative system monitor, the heated O2 sensor monitor should immediately go "ready" (as in, within seconds of starting the car) if the fix works.
ReplyDeleteNan, sounds like VW has some general pump issues. There's nothing inherently wrong with plastic blades in a water pump -- they're immune to corrosion and quite durable if properly designed -- but that relies on them being properly designed. It doesn't help that American auto mechanics continually put crap coolant into cars that aren't designed to run with crap coolant, if you don't put the factory-specified HOAT coolant into Volkswagens they *will* break because the blades are not designed to run with silicate deposits on them (silicates are what the old "green" colored fluids use to stop corrosion), but you can't even buy the factory-specified HOAT coolant at most auto parts stores -- here in the Bay Area, only CarQuest and NAPA (and of course the dealership) carry it.
Lynne, the Big 3 automakers were the canary in a coal mine when it came to the future of America. Detroit is the future of America itself :(.
- Badtux the Futurist Penguin
Just to let everyone know that Chrysler *can* get it right occasionally, we have a 12 year old Dodge 250 Diesel truck that has essentially been trouble-free. Of course, it doesn't get too many miles put on it in any given year, since we use our 13-year-old Mazda Protege for driving around town -- it gets better fuel economy -- and save the truck for going places where 4WD is useful.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think Chrysler, I'll always remember Robert Nardelli testifying before Congress looking for a bailout so he and his private equity fund could walk away with billions while he screwed the help and the taxpayers.
ReplyDeleteHe was fresh from fucking over Home Depot, so Congress should have been prepared for a good rogering, but the critters congratulated him for his outstanding responses to their myopic questions. The check had already been cut as he gathered his belongings and headed to his private jet ready for a well deserved vacation as he looked for another cadaver he and his buddies could carve up.
Oooh, Robert Nardelli. What an evil, evil 1%'er Nardelli was, indeed. At the same time he was cutting Chrysler's engineering budget to the bone, he was taking home $200M/year -- more than enough to keep all the engineering projects on track. But of course lizard people don't care about the fate of the companies they run, because the companies -- and the people employed by them -- are just prey to them. So it goes.
ReplyDelete- Badtux the Prey Penguin
Badtux, I haven't read it yet but Jennifer Granholm's new book is about how Michigan is the canary in the coal mine for the rest of the country. Even she's moved to California though.
ReplyDeleteKaren, I know lots of people who have been very happy with their Chrysler cars but also a lot of people who aren't. It is frustrating because they can make ads that make me want to buy their cars but they can't seem to make any cars that make me want to buy their cars.
I worked in a Plymouth/Chrysler dealership back in the late 60's, good cars back then. Had a 63 Chrysler 300 convertible, loved it.
ReplyDeleteWe have the government we deserve, and people get the jeeps they deserve. :-)
Next time buy something better.
In the first place, those 'TSB's" should have been outright recalls, Ford pulls the same shit and the only one who knows about it is (insert company) certified techs.
ReplyDeleteLeaking gas?
Buy a fucking Pinto if ya can find one.
Find the number to a Regional Manager, go right past the fucking dealer.
Crossed wires to a critical sensor and get no relief? Again,
try to find a Regional Manager and scream into that fuckers ear every damn day, he will make it fixed.
If that doesn't work, call your states Attorney General and pitch a fit.
It will filter back to that dude as fast as shit runs down hill.
On another note, you only have to go back six years for emmissions?!!!!!
Washington state goes back twenty fucking five!!
Yep, and the local Chisler dealers are just as bad. I bought a 2001 Town and Country, spec'd it out just the way I wanted it and paid through the nose, only to have it delivered without a $2000 sub-assembley (the electronic key modules). NOt only did the dealer shrug their shoulders and claim that the factory spec's changed, so it's none of their problem, but F'ing Chisler shrugged theirs and said, not ours either, call the Atty General.
ReplyDeleteThe number of screw-ups the dealers have put me through in the last 10 years could make a strong man weep with rage. The last straw was the Anti-lock brake light coming on: the brake systems =hasn't worked for 8+years= but I couldn't get anyone to actually test them, because it was dangerous. No Shit. SO finally the light comes on and the brilliant people at the dealer go, "Hey! Your vehicle is corroded underneath, the ALB system isn't working properly. So, why don't you give us $800, and we'll see if that fixes it, of not, we'll try the $1000 version." And then they were all butt-hurt when I cursed them for the avaricious lizards they are.
Busted, no, they *start* testing at 6 years, then go back all the way to 1975. They figure if the car is 5 years old or less it's gonna pass anyhow so why bother? As for the crossed wires, Chiseler is, like, "it'll pass emissions so why do you care?" Seems that the O2 sensor heaters are important for cold start (so it starts quickly and idles smoothly when cold), but won't affect the emissions test? Huh.
ReplyDeleteSo I guess I'll get that all-important smog certificate and *then* fix it (so I don't have to wait for the readiness indicators to say 'Ready' after I disconnect the power to fix it). SIIIiiiigh!
Yogi, that's Chiseler for ya. Don't bother with an extended warranty either unless you've gone to the dealership for *all* of your service and never modify your ride in *any* way. Crap, if you tinted your fucking windows Chiseler would claim it invalidated your extended warranty 'cause it 'concentrated the heat waves' or some shit they pull outta their asses. Fuckers are evil, pure and simple.
BBC, call Suzuki and ask them to import the Jimny into America and I'll be overjoyed to trade in my Jeep for one. 'Cause that's the only other vehicle on the entire planet that'll do what my Jeep will do. Fucking Chiseler has a goddamn monopoly on small offroad 4x4 vehicles here in the USA, and are acting just like AT&T back during the Bell Systems days (or today for that matter), "we're the phone company, we don't care, we don't have to."
- Badtux the Wrenchin' Penguin
Sorry if this is a bit too off-topic, but if your hobby is exploring ghost towns, perhaps you have some notion of where this might have occurred:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cultdeadcow.com/cDc_files/cDc-0363.php
The story, while NOT giving a location, seems to have enough clues to eventually locate a spot:
"...father owned a scrapyard, twenty-two acres of barren desert scrub"
"...the nearby Army base was a huge storage depot"
"Jimmy went to college to study mechanical engineering...
...the campus where Jimmy took classes was almost 150 miles away"
"...the Mojave is covered with abandoned railroad track, most of it the old-fashioned narrow-gauge kind used for mining trains near the turn of the century. I knew of at least three such pieces of track within five miles of town."
"Within ten miles of town there were a total of three sections of track long enough to run the rocket car on"
"...they started their search at the switching yard near the city limits"
"...set of rails that started in the desert, continued for five miles or more, and ended in a soft dirt field....this set ran directly through the middle of town, and the field at the end was the Jaycees Softball Field, right across the street from the police station. "
"If the brakes failed while it was heading away from the mine, the car would eventually run onto the wide-gauge rails at the end of our track"
"...with the car pointed toward the mine, a brake failure would mean the car simply flew into an abandoned silver mine"
If I had to guess, oh numeric one, I'd say Yuma, Arizona. Not exactly a ghost town, but the only town in Arizona that I can think of that a) is in the sandy desert, b) has railroad tracks going through it, c) has military bases near it. The AT&SF goes thru the northern part of Arizona but does not pass through sandy desert, while the SP goes thru the southern part of Arizona but its travel to the east of Tucson is through the gravely Sonoran Desert rather than the sandy Mojave, while there isn't really any military bases until you get to Yuma. Which is also bleepin' hot, the hottest town in America, so moving to (slightly cooler) Phoenix from Yuma you'd not complain about the heat :).
ReplyDeleteAlternately there's a number of places in California in the Mojave Desert where this could be, but since two of the people in the story moved *to* California, clearly the story did not take place in California. Meaning it has to be in Arizona. Or maybe Nevada, but I can't think of any place in Nevada that would be hot enough that people would think Phoenix was cooler than there.
- Badtux the Geography Puzzle Penguin