tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9612609.post8691943334947499499..comments2023-09-29T06:58:20.125-07:00Comments on Badtux the Snarky Penguin: Are charter schools the solution for urban schooling?BadTuxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01345749557330760251noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9612609.post-4432485954523313112011-02-20T10:23:23.500-08:002011-02-20T10:23:23.500-08:00Elizabeth, my guess is that you're not a high ...Elizabeth, my guess is that you're not a high school math teacher. I was of course talking about average teachers, not the rare "born teacher" that occasionally pops up. But even in the latter case, the research is clear -- she's a better teacher after 5 or 6 years of experience than she was out of college.<br /><br />Regarding schools of education, mentoring, etc., all of those are valuable in improving teacher retention, but don't seem to have a lot of effect upon student outcomes when you look at the research. What does seem to affect student outcomes are curricular choices and methodology choices, which are driven by instructional leadership at the school or district level. Even there, the experienced teachers *still* get better outcomes than the new teachers. <br /><br />Similarly, regarding schools, there are good schools and there are bad schools, regardless of whether they are charter schools or not. My point was that <i>it just doesn't make any difference</i> whether it's a charter school or not -- on average, the outcomes are the same as for public schools.<br /><br />You mention your child preferring a smaller environment and thus liking his charter school better. "Liking" is not an educational outcome, it is a social outcome, but anyhow. One of the interesting experiments, now that Steve Bates has brought HISD into this, is the HISD magnet school system. Basically this creates "schools within schools", giving kids the small environment that you mention (these "schools within schools" are deliberately set up to avoid interactions with the larger surrounding school -- their own lunch period, playground period, etc.), without the overhead of needing a separate building and facilities management and etc. It does sound like the sort of solution that would provide the environment that your child prefers, without the overhead and churn of charter schools -- for example, HISD Dodson Elementary's Montessori school-within-a-school has been quite popular and successful for over 20 years now, but at far less cost than having a separate charter school, and probably has better outcomes than a separate Montessori charter school would have because it has the institutional support and institutional memory of having existed for decades with the resources of a larger organization behind it (HISD's inservice and instructional materials support is world-class, important for something like Montessori where you need a variety of materials that do not exist in an off-the-shelf capacity). <br /><br />But once again, not a solution for the poor academic performance of inner city kids. The academic problems of inner city kids are due to issues that *no* current school, whether public, private, or charter, has had much sustained luck addressing. There have been short-term successes due to talented instructional leaders, but those leaders burn out and the kids go on to not have much better terminal outcomes than the kids who never were in those schools. And we haven't been able to *replicate* those leaders. My guess is that this is because there are institutional changes in how we think of education as a whole that would be required -- and all of society resists that, because everybody knows that schools are "supposed to be" the way they're organized, and any attempt to change their institutional organization in any major way meets major resistance from all segments of society -- parents, students, teachers, administration, the works. <br /><br />So anyhow, enough nattering. Have a nice President's Day weekend. I'm sure you need it, after the exhaustion of getting the kids back on track after their long Christmas vacation where they seemingly forgot everything about how to be successful in school...<br /><br />- Badtux the Former Teacher PenguinBadTuxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01345749557330760251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9612609.post-14554015164662168952011-02-20T04:33:40.918-08:002011-02-20T04:33:40.918-08:00Dear Penguin, You make some interesting points bu...Dear Penguin, You make some interesting points but I have to say, the snarkiness gets in the way. I have just a couple thoughts to share with you about factors that can make a difference.<br /><br />First, I disagree that new teachers cannot teach. Some of the best teachers I have ever seen are new teachers. Their skill very much depends upon the Education program they attended (surprise!)<br /><br />I have seen some fabulous thirty year vets and some that need desperately to retire. The difference in attitude and enthusiasm for teaching and learning is very much influenced by "institutional memory" and school climate.<br /><br />The best model for supporting teachers and preventing burn out is to bring new and experienced teachers together for focused professional development that is supported by the institutional administrators on student success.<br /><br />I am pleased to report that my son's state wide test results improved with one year of Charter Schooling. (Already a high achiever mind you...) I also love that he attends a school with a very diverse population and a staff that takes the time to get to know every student. (They have the time because of the very small class size.) <br /><br />Now the Charter school concept may not be the answer to all of this countries educational woes, however on a small scale perhaps it can influence how our public institutions operate. I have seen a principal in a public school setting adopt the philosophy of a nearby Charter school yielding wonderful results both on the school climate and student achievement. <br /><br />What I leave you with is a simple thought: Be open to the possibility that if we challenge the powers that be (however imperfect the attempt) there might be change (although perhaps small) that can make a difference in teaching practices and more importantly student learning...ultimately, should that not be our goal? <br /><br />Sincerely, A dedicated educator of sixteen yearsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05555129593539794348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9612609.post-47608632769590144422011-02-17T12:56:18.847-08:002011-02-17T12:56:18.847-08:00Excellent analysis Tux.....!Excellent analysis Tux.....!MandThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14561334713342973568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9612609.post-2380765371954432402011-02-17T10:38:24.302-08:002011-02-17T10:38:24.302-08:00BadTux, I can understand the desire of parents in ...BadTux, I can understand the desire of parents in Texas to form charter schools. There have been times and particular regions in Texas where funding for public schools in minority-majority areas was demonstrably inequitable. If I were such a parent, I'd be doing something... Dog knows what... to see to it that my kid got the education s/he deserved. The problem, as you point out, is that charter schools lack the institutional structure to do the job they need to do, even if those who charter the schools have adequate training in education. And yes, most charter schools here last a few years and close up shop. OTOH, my public elementary school was up and running continuously from the days in which Walter Cronkite attended all the way to the present day. Anyone who thinks that education happens in a vacuum isn't thinking clearly. HISD, for all its flaws (and there are many), has the depth of experience and the personnel to do what any educational environment must do. Charter schools simply don't.Steve Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587223243120009776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9612609.post-38812692346770269222011-02-17T10:10:51.691-08:002011-02-17T10:10:51.691-08:00Steve, the data on charter schools in Arizona show...Steve, the data on charter schools in Arizona shows they're no better than public schools, once you adjust for family income, parental educational level, and race, but on the other hand not the dismal results you report for Texas. <br /><br />It would be interesting to see the difference between the Arizona and Texas charter school setups. In Arizona charter schools get less money than public schools because the notion is that "private enterprise can make do with less" (the actual result is that volunteers, students, and teachers end up overworked and overstressed doing the jobs that central office support workers would do in a public school district, and it contributes to "charter school burnout"), and because of the number of temporary classrooms on school grounds, one fewer classroom results in actual reduced expenses for public schools (one less lease payment on a temporary classroom, one less room to heat, etc.). Capital funding -- the bonds for the school buildings etc. -- is from dedicated property tax funding sources, not per-pupil funding, so redirecting per-pupil funding doesn't mean student funds have to be redirected to pay off the school buildings. Apparently Texas made their setup more corporate-friendly to extract more money from the school districts? <br /><br />In any event, the data is clear: Charter schools are *not* the solution to our education problems. They simply lack the institutional capability to do so. Even the best charter schools don't last long enough to make a significant impact, because "charter school burnout" swiftly takes its toll on the founders, who end up folding within four or five years because they're just completely exhausted. Unless we can somehow clone those people and give them the support they need, there's no way for charter schools to be the solution -- and we already have a mechanism for giving them the support they need, it's called "public school districts", no need to invent a new one.<br /><br />- Badtux the Practical PenguinBadTuxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01345749557330760251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9612609.post-65007707132617718142011-02-17T10:09:51.446-08:002011-02-17T10:09:51.446-08:00Thanks for this very lucid post. I didn't know...Thanks for this very lucid post. I didn't know you were once a teacher. <br /><br />In my province we don't have charter schools, we have "independent schools" that receive up to 50% of their funding from the provincial Ministry of Education. Maybe 10-12% of the kids in the K-12 population are enrolled in these schools, at a cost of about half of what it would cost to educated them in the public system.<br /><br />Most but not all of the schools have some kind of explicit religious affiliation (mostly Christian but we have some Sikh and Muslim schools). They are required to employ only teachers who are certified to teach in the province, and teach what is in the approved provincial curriculum (though material can be added to what's taught, and often is). They get an inspection visit at least once a year from the Ministry as well. <br /><br />I'm not sure what the outcomes are like for these students. Some of these schools are the best in Canada, and their students go on to brilliant academic futures. Some are attended by the unfortunate spawn of God-fearing troglodytes, for just as long as the law requires until they can legally leave and be married off to Uncle Nasty. But it's all done in service of the idea that parents should be able to choose what their children is learning, there (snicker).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9612609.post-7117390072948309062011-02-17T09:47:20.655-08:002011-02-17T09:47:20.655-08:00Count me as a doomsayer. I have not seen one good ...Count me as a doomsayer. I have not seen one good thing come out of charter schools in Texas. You'd think they would at least teach fundamentals better, but the standardized tests used in Texas to measure basic academic performance consistently show charter schools here to be dismal. And the taxpayers' money they drain is sorely needed by public schools. In some cases, charter schools are (illegally) religion-based, and thus serve as a way of funneling tax money to religious instruction. (I think I heard Thomas Jefferson turn in his grave.) Charter schools have been so consistently a failure here that I grieve for each and every ethnic minority student ripped from at least adequate public schools and subjected to the meager fare the charters have to offer.<br /><br />Full disclosure: I am the son of two public school teachers, and myself the product of the Houston public schools.Steve Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587223243120009776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9612609.post-61014614901573363442011-02-17T08:52:59.619-08:002011-02-17T08:52:59.619-08:00Best posting on this issue... EVER. I have friend...Best posting on this issue... EVER. I have friends in Arizona who come right out and say it -- they don't want their hard-earned tax dollars going to education or abortion or health care for Brown and/or poor folks. 'Screw them' is what they say.<br /><br />How in the world did so many people get so stupid so fast? Mind boggling. Thanks for the really fine essay. You RULE.Obliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00532981638701035491noreply@blogger.com